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is going to happen soon enough. So what do we do? Should we setup an agreement in advance to share it? Or do we mop up whatever they don't kill in there?

Course in the meantime, continue to kill Emperor and clear VT like clockwork.

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Mahtra
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Jim Here. :
Celrak Posted
this Sept 22nd.
We killed Emperor
Sept 23rd.
We killed our first
VT mob Oct 8th.

He was a smart
one, wasn't he

-no agreements
-no reason to get paranoid until they kill emp, their best attempt is still 90% when the zone was lagged to fuck
-they have no clue what to do in there, its going to take them a month before they kill anything from the time they do manage to kill the Emperor, and I don't forsee Emperor dying before PoP
-even after PoP (10/21 is supposed release date) I don't forsee them taking him out for at least a few months
-when they do get in there we can easily beat them to anything as long as we're keeping an eye out on what is spawned, we're still learning the zone and we've been in there for what 3 months?

vex is becoming really boring and gay, hopefully PoP raid zones will put it out of its missery.. it should make all of that loot obsolete since this this will be the last eq expansion and they really dont give a shit anymore

at the Best I see pR getting in there in about 2 months which is a month after the PoP release date.. thats like, 8 more clearings

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PR has 2 Emperor Kills and 60+ keys and learned the zone (time frame 1-2 months)

Scenario

-Patch Day-

PR clears to TVK uncontested. We get raid force on. We either contest the rest of VT or leave it uncontested to let them waste time on pre-Aten Ha Ra bosses (upon them ending raiding we mop up the leftovers including Aten). Either way we aren't getting jack.

Respawns are 6 days +/- a few hours, usually respawn at 5.5 days. This means all repops will go to them and we get left with whatever leftovers there are.

This is a strong basis for forging a spawn sharing agreement, whether we can trust them is an issue. Seems like either way we are losing out, I do stronly urge everyone to send monthly emails to CS requesting changes to mobs to allow everyone a chance to kill them in given cycle as opposed to the current state where it is a race to everything.

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Mahtra
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/agree

Everyone should be sending email to them about these problems. I've sent mine.

As for an agreement, we've been here before. As much as I would like the peace and equity one could bring I don't think relations are anywhere near good enough to forge one. We can try though if that's what is wanted.

Juls

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Sample of an agreement:

Purpose (Spirit): To share spawns in Vex Thal and give everyone something to do, this is a game and everyone is entitled to fun.

This agreement pertains to the following NPCs in Vex Thal:

Aten Ha Ra
Kaas Thox Xi Ans Dyek
Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra #1
Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra #2
Diabo Xi Va
Diabo Xi Va Temariel
Diabo Xi Xin
Diabo Xi Xin Thall
Thall Va Kelun
Thall Xundraux Diabo
Va Xi Aten Ha Ra

Rotation would occur between Phantom Raiders and Prophecy. The NPCs listed above are considered 1 cycle. 3 days reserved to accomplish the cycle after a Patch/Server down. If a server/zone reset occurs (which causes spawns to reset, this does not pertain to router/network issues) during a reserved period of time, then the 3 day period begins anew when the server/zone become available again.

Respawns are somewhat random, so a 2 day time reservation will occur to each NPC as they respawn.

Any raid outside of Vex Thal during your reserved time with any of the NPCs listed spawned nullifies the reservation. If a respawn occurs while on a raid outside of Vex Thal, then that raid will be given 2 hours to be completed and to move to Vex Thal. Any raid outside Vex Thal after that raid or failure to move to Vex Thal will result in nullifying that reservation, in the case of respawns all subsequent respawns for that cycle lose reservation as well.

Any engagement of the NPCs listed above by the group who does not have it reserved nullifies the agreement.

Keys obtained for people outside of Phantom Raiders or Prophecy are treated as being in the guild that gave the planar rift/celestial rift. If anyone who got a key courtesy of either of these 2 guilds and violates the reserved time period of either Phantom Raiders or Prophecy, will nullify the agreement.

Enlisting outside guilds to take spawns from either Phantom Raiders or Prophecy's reserved time nullifies the agreement.



Communication

This is essential to honoring the spirit of the agreement as well as to avoid petty bickering. All officers of each guild must know the status of the cycle.

Suggested means of communication would be via a message board usable by all Officers of each guild.

Essential elements that must be coordinated are the start and end times of reserved time periods and notification of respawns and their subsequent start and end time to completion.

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its going to take them a while to figure VT out. And EVERY agreement we have had in the past we get the short end of the stick... even then, they shove it up our ass. Dunno about you guys, but I sick of that!

Noosh

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Jim Here. :
Here we see Celrak
laying out their
plan : "If they
Even manage to
get anywhere in
there, fuck em"

This is where their
policy of COH'ing
jumping our raid
started.

get a clue already
no agreements with them EVER

I don't care how many spawns we lose IF they even manage to get anywhere in there, fuck 'em

PoP will be out before they will have a force in there, assuming they get their second Emp kill.

For right now lets keep our main focus on keeping Emp dead and VT cleaned (minus mini-bosses, fuck em)

if we are seriously that bored, we can clear to each of the mini-bosses in approximately 1 1/2 - 2 hours. but it's a big ol waste of time

ps. we CAN get 35 people on at 3pm Est, that should be plenty to clear anything on the lower level (they will NEED to clear through the place once, for keys etc) and if we see them heading there we can CoH in fast and nuke whatever it is they are going for

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I have a big issue with trusting them, I started this thread to see opinions on it and any insights people had. For the most part everyone has added their opinion.

I don't think we can ever trust them, but that isn't necessarily because they are untrustworthy. They feel they owe us payback for the last agreement, in which Defury was the one responsible for ending it and then blamed it on us exploiting the lack of inter-officer communication they have. So either way, I don't think it would be in our best interests.

I would like to consider keying OSW with VT keys, that way when PoP comes out they can keep PR somewhat in check.

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Dont worry about it for now, they need another emp kill and we need to keep emp/vt down.
When they get there second emp kill they will need keys. so we have time, then when they actually become a treat to us ( IE killing shit and making it to nameds and a threat to take aten) we could think about it.

We tried it before.. what would we bargin? we arent holding anything they want.
I think we shouldnt worry about it and just pwn VT / emp and PoP will be here by then and we will only have to worry about VT and pop shit.. the threat may come down.. who knows we should wait and see what happens but we have time.. but not what we hoped to have.

Lets see what happens.. but I would prolly be against it because there will be tons of shit to kill.

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Interesting idea about keying OSW. We might want to find out more, if possible, about how PoP will be like, so we figure out how much longer we're gonna want VT.

Keying PR competitors might push PR in a direction we don't want.

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Celrak, Master
Diplomat steps
forward.


No wonder things
improved when
he detagged and
Stormhammered

is osw worth a shit? the only other two guilds doing NToV right now are Sunrise and Glory's Path

Sunrise would be great to keep them in check, being similar timezone.. but I am pretty sure they lack the skill to do anything in VT

if they did happen to get a clue, it would be like fueling a PR 2.0

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-Celrak-

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Not too sure about this.

PR's relations with other guilds seem to go hot and cold. They used to be close with OSW, now they're not, they may be again soon. It seems same with DC.

Either way, seems a bit of a low act. Not dis-similar to what they did to break the last agreement. Rather not sink to that level.

As for the agreement, seems almost nobody wants it. I really have to say that I agree. Relations are too bad between us atm.

However, if you wish I could raise the possibility with Raak to see what his reaction is in a purely off the record unofficial way. Happy to do that if the majority feel that it's really going be a viable option.

Juls

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no thanks

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-Celrak-

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Actually Raak
stepped down
because the weeks
and weeks of
harrasment to him
in tells etc. made
him decide to take
a break.

Hmmm, last I heard Raak was no longer guild lead, he may have pull still but his actions almost got the guild disbanded so there is that factor.

When PoP comes out we will only need Aten and a few mobs if that, this is of course is based off how previous expansions worked and some speculation. Items in PoP will break new barriers in HP, Mana etc, they redid the data structure of their loot database to allow values that go at least to 1000. PoP is meant to be the end all of expansions, they want us to move over to EQ like a good flock of sheep, pay more for essentially the same thing with upgraded graphics and starting completely from scratch. So they want us to get our fill fast in PoP so we can open our wallets to them for EQ2.

There is 1 minor concern over VT item focus effects due to their restriction of level 60 spells or lower, it is possible (and I am sure many object, but what VI will do is unknown) that may be increased to a higher level after PoP is released. Not holding my breath on that.


Ok, PoP is released, what are our targets going to be? Well we need to continue with HP/Cursed for the weapons, weapon upgrades are lacking in some areas. We still need to do Emperor occasionally, he is the exclusive mob that has a 5 mana regen buff as well as only one that drops GSS although we are getting to the point where we do not need as many (extra GSS would be a good source for GF if we need it too). The other stuff those mobs drop are good to equip the guild.

We would still hit VT, not sure if we would need all the mobs still, but we want as many Atens as we can get at a minimum. VT gear is a huge increase of power to a guild, if we don't key another guild, then PR will be getting 75-100% of each cycle (once they know the zone) drops after PoP is out, this will close the gap between the 2 guilds rather quickly. So it becomes a matter of weighing our potential losses by getting other guilds in to restraining PR's development.

At any rate, the majoirty of our time will be spent in PoP getting all the /army exp and making our way through the planes and glory with stops in Ssra, VT, and maybe some other places for some gear we need. The key to PoP will be focusing on that expansion as well as keeping tactics as much as possible from leaking out and not bragging we got this Phat lewt, because they see what we have and like a hungry dog they come following like the bums they are.

Giving other guild's keys would be iffy, we don't exactly have a solid relationship with them, however OSW had that gathering and some Prophecy went to it, so that is a small factor. Basically keying other guilds would be like setting a dog free, have no idea what is going to do and how it will affect us.

What about Avvisione, where are they standing currently in terms of accomplishments?

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Mahtra
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Bertoxxulous

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And there's a funny
story behind that :)

Raak retook GL status just a couple weeks after handing it over. He's had it back for a while now and still leads the guild and collects the fines etc!

Juls

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Answer : Kill Ssra,
Kill VT and go
hunting for mobs in
POP. /wave Elay

Met a couple of the officers, Phaedreus and Arsomus, two main pullers I think. They're a pretty capable bunch. I think one of their biggest downsides is that they have a very narrow time-window for raiding. From people logging on late to logging off early.

What's the most PR could do in one single day, in VT?

Gentatsu

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Here Mahtra is
Proud they used
their army of Mage
corpses to jump over
a PR raid in progress

"You wouldn't let
me take over your
one group camp in
ssra, so I'm using
that as a reason to
leapfrog your guild"

Mahtra not really
on the same channel
as Sane.
"We have a
scheduled raid = we
use this as a reason
to walk over any
guild we like"

BTW Mathra, we
knew all about DXXT
Oh most uber
tactical person

So ok, we all here pretty much know what happened tonight. We got to DXXT faster than PR, had it pulled and engaged before they could blink an eye.

Previous dealing with Dergoth involved that time we went to finish the shards for Iena, basically he said I have a raid force here, I am aware not all of them are up, and we are still going to kill whatever we can. Ok, fine. Granted both sides got screwed out of finishing the key that day, but that just shows they don't give a shit about imposing a delay in a quest for one of our members.

So we go forward to tonight, starts out rather hostile, claiming lack of respect on our part and leapfrogging them. Well, read above and you get an idea how I replied to him. There was some mention of intentionally doing this to them for whatever reason. I responded to that by simply stating we had a scheduled raid in here tonight and we are raiding. He did question why we went for that particular mob, upon which I was like you do not have any idea how it works in here. He admitted he didn't, I didn't elaborate on how you had to kill DXXT to move on, I figure I am not volunteering that kind of tactical information. He is clueless to the whole scheme of how it works in there. He did tell me their goal was to get to DXXT and that was the end of their raid.

So towards the end of the chat with him, he brought up the idea of some sort of agreement to share VT. Basically wants us to draft/propose one, send to him before relaying it up to Raak. What you guys want to do, I don't know. We aren't going to be heavily raiding VT in a few weeks as we find more stuff to do in PoP, so our focus isn't going to be quite as protective of VT.

In the short-term, a few more clearings will greatly help us in tackling the challenges in PoP, the focus effects, hp, mana, etc are very powerful. We missed our 2nd Aten (and some other mobs) this week, lets try to clear VT tomorrow (Friday).

Dergoth email is picard1121@epix.net

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